Suburban K2500 6.5 turbo diesel, Stalling !

1stTankerSki · 09-19-2009, 04:52 AM

Any GM 6.5 turbo diesel owners or Mechanics in the forum?

I just picked up a '94 Chevy Sub K2500 4x4, it was running fine for the past 45 days.
But since the last rainy day, last week, and after an oil change in a local shop, it starts and runs for about five minutes and stalls.

When I first got it, one of the first things I checked was what the fuel filter looked like, I took it out and seen only the lower half was dirty, when I reinstalled it, I did not bleed off any air, and it started just fine then.
When the fuel tank level was half, I topped it off (four weeks ago) I've since (last week) topped it off again. It has a dual battery system, the Rt. is an Optima yellow top, (no date) on the Left an Interstate, Mega-Tron #78, over five yrs. old. The day after a rainy day, it was acting up, when starting it, running and then stall, second try it would run ok.

But that was the start of the stalling when running, I figuared it was time to have it code scanned in the shop (Chevy dealers), so I changed the fuel filter, ($29. bucks) but did not watch what I was doing, and messed up the gasket thin metal ring and it drove to about the half way point to the dealer eight miles the other side of town. And had to have it towed into the shop. ($87.26/flatbed tow)

Once there, late afternoon, I told them about the fuel filter, the next day around 1 P.M. (today) it went inside the shop. And just before closing they called to ask, they needed two more hours approx. @ $85.00/hr., and told me all the glow plugs were ok, and they seem to think the injector controler, or injector (s) may be at fault, and he wants to check the wiring harness. etc.

Now for 6.5 turbo diesel, owners and mechanics, is this Dealer's Diesel Pro, (ten or more years of working on GM diesels) on a daily basis, using the Dealers time clock, or your's or my time clock?

Where it only takes 10 minutes to change a 6.5's fuel filter !, and what, maybe another 20 to 45 minutes to read codes on a scanner? After which about 15 min. to think it over, and pinpoint the cause.

It should allready be known how many wiring harnesses are on this engine, and pre made test harnesses, changed out one at a time, should fine a fault in a one hour amount of time for a Pro mechanic? Yes or No?

The injector pump and it's controls are mounted on top of the engine, good to pre-heat fuel, bad for electric control units. All electric controls should be mounted off the hot running engine in cooler locations under the hood. With a conversion kit, a Pro can make the change over in an hour or less.

Any Diesel machanics here know of any good web links, for relocation kits for the GM 6.5 turbo diesel engine?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

Semper Fi !
Ski

crabtruck · 09-19-2009, 03:45 PM

In the talks you had with shop they mentioned no codes ?
Seems as though higher reliability from moving setup shouldn't mean
they can't ID problem with it still factory setup.

To be fair though, if they are using the factory info more than experience,
they will have some problems. For example, a failing ECT can cause
the shut off sometimes and the factory book clearly states that
it's located "RH rear front" on both vin P and HD vin S
while the drawing clearly shows it LH just behind steer pump.
Glad they were clear LOL.

I am not a desiel guy (maybe not a gas guy either

)
but I do have original full 94 factory books if becomes useful.

mtsnieg · 09-19-2009, 05:50 PM

I used to have a '94 Sierra with the 6.5 td. Those enginges starting in '94 switched to an electronic injectot pump. The problem with it wad the PCM (powertrain control module) which id the brains of the injection pump was mounted on the inj pump which is kinda samwitched between the upper and lower intake manifolds. This is susseptable to heat on starts to fail. Mine would die out of nowhere, but start up right away. I ended up making an extension harness and mounting the pmd to a heat sink and relocated it to under the front bumper where it could get cool air flow. Problem solved, but I still bought a new pmd for 300ish on recomendation from my local diesel shop. This sounds to me like your problem.

1stTankerSki · 09-22-2009, 04:41 PM

I just came from the Chevy Dealer, after a half a day Friday, and a half a day on Monday, for diaignostics for a stalling diesel engine, the mechanic told me, "it's either the injector controler, or the injector pump that's bad " and my bill for this info is $ 258.67.

Now I must look awlful dumb, but I remember telling him, I think it's the injectors, and asking if the engine codes would reflect same. He could not even tell me what codes came up.
But the Chevy price for a remanufactured injector pump is $ 1104.73, plus labor to install it. (about another $345.00) And I was told it would be like a new truck!!

While that may be true, I think I can do it cheaper, and have a great running '94 Suburban.

Anyone know of a good source for remanufactered 6.5 diesel injector pumps?

crabtruck · 09-22-2009, 05:11 PM

Ski- see PM.

1stTankerSki · 09-24-2009, 02:26 PM

I did crabtruck, thanks!
Would anyone know where I could fine the wiring diagram for the Stanadyne Injector pump and the PDM/FSD circuits, with the ECM included.

Online I found the outfits that make FSD relocation kits, to either the front bumper or skid plate, or on top of the intake housing with an Aluminum heat sink.
While the bumper mount is good any off road dirt or mud may hamper it. The housing mount, I feel is still too close to high engine heat.

They suggest changing the FSD's resistor, I'm not sure that is good or not, considering the output signal from and to the ECM. And or the length of wire for the relocation being over 6' long.

I would think, mounting the FSD on a heat sink, and using stand-off spacers to the under side of the hood on the raised cross stiffner panel is off the engine, uses a shorter wire harness, and in a cooler air stream. Some owners could go one better by having a hood, with a functional air scoop, with the FSD heatsink fins in cooler air even more. I've also thought of designing a more efficient aluminum heat sink with an electronic cooler inside it that would transfer the heat from the FSD to the heatsink while cooling the FSD at the same time, but have to work out the condensation issue it would produce. It's on the drawing board for now.

For now, I'll have the Dealer install a new FSD and resister on the Pump a new one should last a while untill I can relocate it. As long as nothing else is wrong with the Injector Pump, I'll have the Suburban back, while I work on a better solution.

Ski

mjeltema · 09-25-2009, 05:58 AM

I went through this a couple of years ago on a 1996 k3500. Engine would stall (this was during the winter in the midwest, 0 degrees F), until finally the engine refused to start over a two week period. I tried the usual stuff of changing the fuel filter, ensuring the in-line fuel pump was working, checking wiring harness, and asking for advise through the forum.
Based on symptoms and information I pretty much concluded it was the FSD (PMD) module. With that decided, I towed the vehicle home, changed the PMD, and at the same time move the module outside of the engine compartment.

I bought a used PMD off Ebay, made my own wire harness extension (about 7 feet long), modified an aluminum heat sink (had a friend with an endmill) and relocated the PMD to the front bumper. I managed to complete the repair for about $75 and my time. I put a thermocouple on the module and it runs a cool 115 degrees F. The motor fired up as though nothing was ever wrong and has not skipped beat in over two years.

Get yourself a new/used PMD and plug the harness in. Make sure you have the PMD resistor plugged in too (it's at the base of the PMD connector). If the motor starts and continues to run, you've probably found the problem. After that take the time and effort to move the PMD off the injector pump.

1stTankerSki · 09-26-2009, 03:16 AM

Thanks ! mjeltema,
I'm going to do just that ! It's least exspensive then replacing the IP, as the Dealer wants to do (time&labor), you would think the Dealers, would be able to rebuild Injector Pumps, or at least sell the parts to do so.
I'm still going to redesign the FSD and heatsink, configuation there is room for improvement, as long as trucks have and use diesel engines. Has the Duramax changed the FSD location on it's Injector Pumps?

09-19-2009, 04:52 AM	#1
1stTankerSki Full Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N.W. Wash. Olympic Peninsula Posts: 13	Suburban K2500 6.5 turbo diesel, Stalling ! Any GM 6.5 turbo diesel owners or Mechanics in the forum? I just picked up a '94 Chevy Sub K2500 4x4, it was running fine for the past 45 days. But since the last rainy day, last week, and after an oil change in a local shop, it starts and runs for about five minutes and stalls. When I first got it, one of the first things I checked was what the fuel filter looked like, I took it out and seen only the lower half was dirty, when I reinstalled it, I did not bleed off any air, and it started just fine then. When the fuel tank level was half, I topped it off (four weeks ago) I've since (last week) topped it off again. It has a dual battery system, the Rt. is an Optima yellow top, (no date) on the Left an Interstate, Mega-Tron #78, over five yrs. old. The day after a rainy day, it was acting up, when starting it, running and then stall, second try it would run ok. But that was the start of the stalling when running, I figuared it was time to have it code scanned in the shop (Chevy dealers), so I changed the fuel filter, ($29. bucks) but did not watch what I was doing, and messed up the gasket thin metal ring and it drove to about the half way point to the dealer eight miles the other side of town. And had to have it towed into the shop. ($87.26/flatbed tow) Once there, late afternoon, I told them about the fuel filter, the next day around 1 P.M. (today) it went inside the shop. And just before closing they called to ask, they needed two more hours approx. @ $85.00/hr., and told me all the glow plugs were ok, and they seem to think the injector controler, or injector (s) may be at fault, and he wants to check the wiring harness. etc. Now for 6.5 turbo diesel, owners and mechanics, is this Dealer's Diesel Pro, (ten or more years of working on GM diesels) on a daily basis, using the Dealers time clock, or your's or my time clock? Where it only takes 10 minutes to change a 6.5's fuel filter !, and what, maybe another 20 to 45 minutes to read codes on a scanner? After which about 15 min. to think it over, and pinpoint the cause. It should allready be known how many wiring harnesses are on this engine, and pre made test harnesses, changed out one at a time, should fine a fault in a one hour amount of time for a Pro mechanic? Yes or No? The injector pump and it's controls are mounted on top of the engine, good to pre-heat fuel, bad for electric control units. All electric controls should be mounted off the hot running engine in cooler locations under the hood. With a conversion kit, a Pro can make the change over in an hour or less. Any Diesel machanics here know of any good web links, for relocation kits for the GM 6.5 turbo diesel engine? Thanks for any help you can provide! Semper Fi ! Ski Last edited by 1stTankerSki; 09-19-2009 at 04:56 AM. Reason: added to

09-19-2009, 05:50 PM	#3
mtsnieg Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Okauchee, WI Posts: 60	I used to have a '94 Sierra with the 6.5 td. Those enginges starting in '94 switched to an electronic injectot pump. The problem with it wad the PCM (powertrain control module) which id the brains of the injection pump was mounted on the inj pump which is kinda samwitched between the upper and lower intake manifolds. This is susseptable to heat on starts to fail. Mine would die out of nowhere, but start up right away. I ended up making an extension harness and mounting the pmd to a heat sink and relocated it to under the front bumper where it could get cool air flow. Problem solved, but I still bought a new pmd for 300ish on recomendation from my local diesel shop. This sounds to me like your problem. __________________ '94 Chevy Silverado Z71 Xtra cab 4x4 350cid 4l60e auto

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09-19-2009, 03:45 PM	#2
crabtruck Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: on your 9 Posts: 3,366	In the talks you had with shop they mentioned no codes ? Seems as though higher reliability from moving setup shouldn't mean they can't ID problem with it still factory setup. To be fair though, if they are using the factory info more than experience, they will have some problems. For example, a failing ECT can cause the shut off sometimes and the factory book clearly states that it's located "RH rear front" on both vin P and HD vin S while the drawing clearly shows it LH just behind steer pump. Glad they were clear LOL. I am not a desiel guy (maybe not a gas guy either ) but I do have original full 94 factory books if becomes useful.

09-22-2009, 04:41 PM	#4
1stTankerSki Full Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N.W. Wash. Olympic Peninsula Posts: 13	I just came from the Chevy Dealer, after a half a day Friday, and a half a day on Monday, for diaignostics for a stalling diesel engine, the mechanic told me, "it's either the injector controler, or the injector pump that's bad " and my bill for this info is $ 258.67. Now I must look awlful dumb, but I remember telling him, I think it's the injectors, and asking if the engine codes would reflect same. He could not even tell me what codes came up. But the Chevy price for a remanufactured injector pump is $ 1104.73, plus labor to install it. (about another $345.00) And I was told it would be like a new truck!! While that may be true, I think I can do it cheaper, and have a great running '94 Suburban. Anyone know of a good source for remanufactered 6.5 diesel injector pumps?

09-22-2009, 05:11 PM	#5
crabtruck Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: on your 9 Posts: 3,366	Ski- see PM.

09-24-2009, 02:26 PM	#6
1stTankerSki Full Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N.W. Wash. Olympic Peninsula Posts: 13	I did crabtruck, thanks! Would anyone know where I could fine the wiring diagram for the Stanadyne Injector pump and the PDM/FSD circuits, with the ECM included. Online I found the outfits that make FSD relocation kits, to either the front bumper or skid plate, or on top of the intake housing with an Aluminum heat sink. While the bumper mount is good any off road dirt or mud may hamper it. The housing mount, I feel is still too close to high engine heat. They suggest changing the FSD's resistor, I'm not sure that is good or not, considering the output signal from and to the ECM. And or the length of wire for the relocation being over 6' long. I would think, mounting the FSD on a heat sink, and using stand-off spacers to the under side of the hood on the raised cross stiffner panel is off the engine, uses a shorter wire harness, and in a cooler air stream. Some owners could go one better by having a hood, with a functional air scoop, with the FSD heatsink fins in cooler air even more. I've also thought of designing a more efficient aluminum heat sink with an electronic cooler inside it that would transfer the heat from the FSD to the heatsink while cooling the FSD at the same time, but have to work out the condensation issue it would produce. It's on the drawing board for now. For now, I'll have the Dealer install a new FSD and resister on the Pump a new one should last a while untill I can relocate it. As long as nothing else is wrong with the Injector Pump, I'll have the Suburban back, while I work on a better solution. Ski

09-25-2009, 05:58 AM	#7
mjeltema Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9	stalling 6.5L diesel I went through this a couple of years ago on a 1996 k3500. Engine would stall (this was during the winter in the midwest, 0 degrees F), until finally the engine refused to start over a two week period. I tried the usual stuff of changing the fuel filter, ensuring the in-line fuel pump was working, checking wiring harness, and asking for advise through the forum. Based on symptoms and information I pretty much concluded it was the FSD (PMD) module. With that decided, I towed the vehicle home, changed the PMD, and at the same time move the module outside of the engine compartment. I bought a used PMD off Ebay, made my own wire harness extension (about 7 feet long), modified an aluminum heat sink (had a friend with an endmill) and relocated the PMD to the front bumper. I managed to complete the repair for about $75 and my time. I put a thermocouple on the module and it runs a cool 115 degrees F. The motor fired up as though nothing was ever wrong and has not skipped beat in over two years. Get yourself a new/used PMD and plug the harness in. Make sure you have the PMD resistor plugged in too (it's at the base of the PMD connector). If the motor starts and continues to run, you've probably found the problem. After that take the time and effort to move the PMD off the injector pump.

09-26-2009, 03:16 AM	#8
1stTankerSki Full Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N.W. Wash. Olympic Peninsula Posts: 13	Thanks ! mjeltema, I'm going to do just that ! It's least exspensive then replacing the IP, as the Dealer wants to do (time&labor), you would think the Dealers, would be able to rebuild Injector Pumps, or at least sell the parts to do so. I'm still going to redesign the FSD and heatsink, configuation there is room for improvement, as long as trucks have and use diesel engines. Has the Duramax changed the FSD location on it's Injector Pumps?