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Thread: 1999 Dodge cummins O/D shift problem

  1. #1
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    Unhappy 1999 Dodge cummins O/D shift problem

    I have a 99 dodge cummins @45 it wants to shift to O/D any acceleration it downshits back and forth till 65+ is reached even above 65 the tack will jump up about 500 rpm then drop back and continue doing this constantly. Help!!!!! I luv this old truck!!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Kennyray's Avatar
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    sounds more the the torque convertor locking and unlocking

  3. #3
    Senior Member chevyguy's Avatar
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    How long has it been since you did a fluid filter adn gasket change on this transmission?
    Window tint its for window, Not for tail lights. Don't be that guy .

  4. #4
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    check TSBs on that tranny. 99 model dodges with those trannies are notorious for having problems and involve cracking it open. seen it many of times. literally everyone i know with one, has or had a problem with them.

  5. #5
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    I had the similar problem with my 99 Dodge. Had the tranny rebuilt, worked fine for a while. Started all over again. Finally found out there was an electrical issue. Had a bad connection at the batteries. I put new cable ends on ( clamp on) worked alright for a while. Finally, I took it to an auto electric shop, had new crip on ends put on
    (like factory) had been shifting fine ever since. I know it doesn't sound right but I was told you have to have the right voltage for the tranny to shift properly.

  6. #6
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    that answer is correct any corrosion or loosness on the ground cables will cause the shifting problem

  7. #7
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    I have had the same problem with my 1999 cummins. I started to disconnect the battery grounds and reconnect them and that would hold fine for a month or two and then go back. I'll try the new battery cables... hope it works.

  8. #8
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    That sounds like the TCC falling in and out of lockup. This is a common issue in these. It is easy to mistake TCC lockup with 3-4 shift all because lockup on a Dodge diesel is much more pronounced (Noticible) in these vehicles. USUALLY the problem is a bad TPS. I have seen other issues such as a bad trans temp sensor and electrical noise from the alternator causing the same thing (The wiring for the TPS and the alternator wires are next to each other in the same harness) I would monitor the TPS with a scanner hooked up to see if the problem lies there.


    transman
    GM MASTER TECHNICIAN
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  9. #9
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    1998 Dodge Ram Cummins 24V Diesel
    Converter Clutch Cycling Repair
    Symptoms. This problem has been reported on 1998 and 1999 Dodge truck models.
    Overdrive ON - The torque converter clutch cycles on and off at speeds between 40 to 50 miles per hour. The transmission feels like it is shifting, but it is not. The converter clutch is engaging and disengaging. This occurs in 4th gear. The problem typically disappears at speed above 50 mph. The clutch will disengage below 40 mph and stay disengaged.
    Overdrive OFF - The torque converter clutch cycles on and off at speeds between 30 to 40 miles per hour. This occurs in 3rd gear. The problem typically disappears at speed above 40 mph.
    The problem is actually related to the engine speed. In both cases the engine speed is between 1200 to 1500 rpm. See the problem theory below.
    Dodge Dealer Solution. The Dodge dealer is unlikely to make modification that are not sanctioned by the factory. Therefore, the only possible repair at the dealer level is to replace the alternator and accelerator pedal positions sensor (APPS). The APPS must be calibrated and the engine control module (ECM) and the powertrain control module (PCM) should be reprogrammed (flashed). The dealer fix is only temporary at best because the problem is caused by a faulty system design. A rebuilt alternator may not correct the problem. See the theory behind the problem as described below.
    NEW Easier Fix No. 1 That Others Claim Works
    I don't know if this fix is the same as my converter clutch cycling, but it is an easy try.
    Step No. 1 Disconnect both negative cables at the batteries first, then disconnect both positive cables.
    Step No. 2 Locate the 1/4" ground wire on the passenger side battery. It is black with a white stripe. The ground wire has a connector mounted on the battery support box. Pry this connector loose from the battery box. Disconnect the at the plug. This will give extra length to relocate the wire away from the alternator.
    Step No. 3 Redirect the covered ground wire above the alternator support bracket instead of underneath it. The goal is to move the ground wire away from the alternator to avoid electrical noise. Place wire ties to keep the ground wire in place.
    Step No. 4 Reconnect the ground wire at the coupling.
    Step No. 5 Turn the ignition key on for several minutes and turn it off.
    Step No. 6 Connect the positive battery cables first and then the negative cables.
    Step No. 7 Do not start the engine. Turn the ignition key to on. Reprogram the APPS by pressing the throttle pedal slowly to the floor and then releasing it slowly.
    Step No. 8 Start the engine, drive, and test. The problem will always appear to be fixed the first day. A failure may not appear for several days. Report your results to my email above after one week of normal driving.
    NEW Easier Fix No. 2 That Others Claim Works
    Note: I have not had the opportunity to test this fix myself. Please give it a try and tell me if it was successful. If this method does not work, please proceed to "My Fix That Works" below that is more difficult but is effective. I have driven well over 100,000 miles with my fix. Please read the negative shifting side effect caused by my fix.
    Send email to: Kent R. Rieske at RieskeKR@gmail.com.

    Step No. 1 Disconnect both negative cables at the batteries first, then disconnect both possible cables.
    Step No. 2 Locate the 1/4" ground wire on the passenger side battery. It is black with a white stripe. It enters a large wiring harness near the alternator and run across the front of the engine toward the fuel injection pump on the driver side.
    Step No. 3 The ground wire has a connector mounted on the battery support box. Pry this connector loose from the battery box. Cut this ground wire about 3" from the connector, but leave enough exposed to easily connect it back together again. This will give extra length to relocate the wire away from the alternator.
    Step No. 4 Remove the ground wire from the wiring harness across the front of the engine. Close the wiring harness without the ground wire inside.
    Step No. 5 Slide a piece of hydraulic hose with braided wire over the ground wire. Do not connect the braided wire to anything.
    Step No. 6 Redirect the covered ground wire above the alternator support bracket instead of underneath it. The goal is to move the ground wire away from the alternator to avoid electrical noise. Place wire ties to keep the ground wire in place.
    Step No. 7 Reconnect the ground wire at the cut ends with a compression coupling. Also solder the coupling. Apply electrical tape for appearance only. Mount the connector back onto the battery support box, if desired.
    Step No. 8 Turn the ignition key on for several minutes and turn it off.
    Step No. 9 Connect the positive battery cables first and then the negative cables.
    Step No. 10 Do not start the engine. Turn the ignition key to on. Reprogram the APPS by pressing the throttle pedal slowly to the floor and then releasing it slowly.
    Step No. 11 Start the engine, drive, and test. The problem will always appear to be fixed the first day. A failure may not appear for several days. Report your results to my email above after one week of normal driving.
    My Fix That Works, but Read the Delay in Downshifting Symptom Listed Below
    This repair was the last of many attempts that failed. I have tested many other suggestion and all of them failed to provide a lasting fix. This procedure was successful in eliminating the converter clutch cycling. A toroidal inductance coil and capacitor circuit is installed on the wiring harness at the powertrain control module (PCM) on the accelerator pedal position sensor (APPS) signal circuit coming from the engine control module (ECM). The low frequency interference (LFI) noise that disrupts the PCM computer "learn" circuit is reduced.
    This job is surprisingly easy to do.
    Record the trip odometer reading because it will be reset to zero when the batteries are disconnected below.
    Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS) Output Circuit
    The signal wire from the APPS terminal number 3 is the problem circuit. This is wire number H102 that is light blue color with a black tracer. It runs to the ECM on the left side of the engine behind the fuel filter. The circuit is shown in the shop manual on page 8W-30-15.
    The APPS signal circuit continues from the ECM to the PCM. This is wire number K22 that is orange color with a blue tracer. The circuit is shown in the shop manual on page 8W-30-7.
    Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
    The PCM is more than the name implies. It is the main computer for the entire truck. The location is on the right side firewall behind the air cleaner box. Access is easier than first thought. The air filter top does not need to be removed.
    Noise Filter
    The noise filter assembly is a model N-25 by Navone Engineering, 4119 Coronado Avenue, Suite 4, Stockton, CA 95204-2336. Telephone: 209-465-6139 or 1-800-669-6139, Fax: 209-465-2912. Do not buy model N-25T without the capacitor because it will not work. The noise filter consists of an inline ferrite core toroidal induction choke and a capacitor connected to ground.
    Navone Engineering - Filters & Noise Suppressers.
    http://www.davidnavone.com/cart.asp?24&cat=2

    Installation
    Disconnect both batteries by disconnecting the negative terminal first.
    Step No. 1 The wiring harness going to the PCM has three large connectors. Connector C1, manual page 8W-80-13 contains the wires for connecting the noise filter. This connector is on the side nearest the engine. It has a black plastic tip on the male connector. Squeeze the top and bottom release clips at the same time while working the connector up and down slightly and pulling straight out.
    Step No. 2 The center connectors has a white plastic tip and the connector nearest the fender has a gray plastic tip. Remove both connectors as done in step 1 above.
    Step No. 3 The entire wiring harness can now be gently lifted up to the top of the air cleaner housing. The air cleaner top does not need to be removed.
    Step No. 4 Locate the orange wire with a dark blue tracer on connector C1 that has the black plastic tip. Cut the wire midway in the exposed section. Solder the RED filter wire to the cut wire on the connector side. Solder the GREEN filter wire to the cut wire on the harness side. Tape the wires. Do not use crimped connectors because they are not effective for suppressing noise.
    Step No. 5 Locate any one of the three ground wires on C1. The ground wires are black with a tan tracer. Remove a small section of insulation. Solder the BLACK filter wire to the ground wire. Tape the wires.
    Step No. 6 The noise filter unit is encased in a plastic tube but is probably not water tight. Place a heavy plastic bag over the filter assembly with the wire coming out of the open end of the bag. Wire tie the covered assembly to the harness with the open end toward the connector.
    Step No. 7 Lower the harness assembly into position and plug in the three connectors. Both latches on each connector should click into place. Adjust the position of the filter assembly with the bag cover opening down.
    Step No. 8 Connect the positive battery cables first. Then connect the negative battery cables. Reset the time on radio clock. Tell the truck owner what the trip odometer reading was before the batteries were disconnected.
    Theory Behind the Problem.
    The APPS signal goes from the APPS to the engine control module (ECM) and from the ECM to the powertrain control module (PCM). The PCM has a "learning" circuit in the computer that is disrupted by noise or low frequency interference (LFI) emanating from the APPS, alternator or both. The LFI noise appears to resonate with one of the circuits in the PCM causing incorrect changes in the learn circuit. The alternator can develop noise that is caused by "leaky" rectifiers. A rectifier passes current in one direction but blocks the current in the other direction. A leaky rectifier allows a small amount of current to flow in the blocked direction. Replacing the alternator repaired my Dodge for a period of more than one year. Beware of rebuilt alternators that could already have leaky rectifiers. Insist on a report that shows the leakage to be zero if you go this route. Replacing the APPS may fix the problem for a while also but this must be done by the Dodge dealer.
    Disconnecting both batteries and reconnecting them fixes the converter clutch cycling for a few days. It is temporary fix because the "learn" memory in the computer is erases. The problem begins again as the computer begins to learn a new incorrect setting. The converter clutch cycling gets worse and worse as the learn setting is disrupted by the LFI noise.
    Negative Downshift Side Effect Caused by the Noise Filter.
    A new user discovered that the noise filter recommended here causes a negative downshift side effect. I have driven my Dodge for about 100,000 miles since installing the noise filter and didn't even notice the lagging in the downshift on full throttle. I now recall that the downshift on a few occasions in the past was sluggish.
    I ran these tests:
    1. At 30 mph the tranny would be in 3rd and no-lockup. At full throttle the tranny does not shift down to 2nd for about 4 seconds. This seems like a long time if you are trying to pass someone.
    2. At 50 mph the tranny would be in 4th and lockup. At full throttle no downshift occurred.
    Suggestions:
    A. The noise filter is probably oversized which would delay voltage changes coming from the APPS. This design was not based on scientific research, so other sizes were not tested. You could try smaller sizes, but I don't have any other sources other than as listed on the web page.
    B. You could try a noise filter on the alternation, since the alternator is the source of the problem. The present noise filter does not have enough amp capacity for mounting on the alternator output, so you would have to find a much larger unit to carry the high amps.
    C. Other people have tried running the alternator output wire in a different manner, but I have no idea where or how to make wiring changes that will work. The Dodge factory solved this problem in newer models, but I have no idea what they did.
    My conclusion:
    I am not doing any further testing to find a better solution, since I didn't notice the downshift lag for 100,000 miles. It is not worth the effort for me.
    I will manually shift from D to 2 when driving at a speed between 25 to 40 mph if a forced downshift us desired.
    I will press the "O/D Off" button to force a downshift from 4th and lockup to 3rd and unlock at speeds between 45 and 60 when I want a forced downshift.
    Please give feedback if you discover other methods of resolving the factory converter clutch cycling problem.
    Good luck,
    Kent R. Rieske, P.E.
    Professional Mechanical Engineer
    Automotive Specialist
    You can contact the author by clicking the mailbox above.
    Success Stories
    Dear Kent:
    I have a 99 Dodge 3500 24valve turbo diesel with over 298,000 miles on the OEM transmission as well as shifter!!! Yes amazing but I had your filter installed over two years ago to stop the numerous errors in what appeared to be a floating ground. After reading your invention and solution to the problem it all made sense. Having a Electronic Engineering and Computer Programming degree, it was quite apparent there was some sort of issue with interpretations of information being processed by the ECM/PCM units that were cause erratic outputs as well. My overdrive would periodically go in and out at different RPMs, my ECM had to be replaced twice with reprogramming and other strange ghosts as well. After this wonderful filter being installed my ex husband with a Masters in Electrical Engineering is a design engineer for WAI the major supplier of voltage regulators, ignition modules, rectifiers, alternator etc for all the automotive whole suppliers such a NAPA etc etc told me how Dodge is the only design in which the alternator is controlled by the ECM/PCM and not having the voltage regulator separate regulating the alternator like all other automotive designs. This all came clear as to way your brilliant filter has fixed my great truck which I still have and many others. You know as well as me that high amperage devices do cause a lot of spikes and noise when turning on and off. We all also know that such spikes not only cause damage but cause improper information or false reading to be supplied to the ECM which in turn causes the irratic behaviour of trucks. It is not good for high amperage devices to be controlled by 5 and 12 volt low current devices without the proper filters such as SMT ceramic capacitors coils etc. You did a great fix and I still have my OEM transmission with over 298,000 on it. Yes I love my little 1999 Red Dodge Dually. Now she has the Edge attitude, pure-air flow air dog fuel system, K&N air filter, oversized exhaust to the headers, my gooseneck towing package, and the OEM transmission!!!! Thanks for being a good Engineer from one Engineer to another.
    Rebecca
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hello,
    I own a 99 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel with the automatic transmission. I had the exact same problems that you described. I had taken it to the dealer 16 times for the same problem. They rebuilt the tranny twice in a year and a half, they had my truck tied up in their shop for weeks at a time, every time they gave it back to me the problem would be gone but as you know the problem would return. The problem started at 98000 miles and at that time I was still covered under my extended warranty. Anyways after 16 times of trying to fix it the dealer closed the door on me, and so did the manufacturer. They said that it was my fault that this was happening, due to abnormal driving. My tranny problem was happening at 40 mph the torque converter would go in and out of lock up. It would also do it at 80 mph. The service manager said that I was driving it abnormally. I will quote his written statement.
    "Checked for codes, none founded, checked operation of transmission-ok, service manager drove with tech, service manager noted that phenomenon is difficult to duplicate - requires abnormal driving pattern {have to attempt to maintain precise 40 mph}. No recommendation."
    Can you believe that crock? Anyways that was when they closed the door on me, and now I am pursuing taking them to court, because they never fixed the problem that started before warranty was up. Anyways I was at my wits end with this truck, and nobody knew how to fix the problem. Then I stumbled across your web page, and I followed your instructions to the letter, and so far so good. It's been about 5 weeks since I put the filter on and the longest it ever stayed fixed by the dealer was 4 weeks. I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to share your solution. You have helped me regain some sanity in my life.

    Thanks again,
    Jeff
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Hi there,

    Taryn Breen here to report that the fix worked perfectly. I am thrilled.

    Sincerely,

    Taryn Breen
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Kent,
    I have the same problem, and have been fighting it for over a year now.
    I've been back and forth from the dealer to my local transmission (Grapevine Automatic) shop who is a very reputable transmission shop and has done several transmission rebuilds for me over the years. Fortunately they stuck with me, trying doing all the suggested fixes recommended by Dodge, including a reflash. Eventually the dodge dealer gave up on me, when they couldn’t fix it and returned me to the transmission shop indicating that it was probably something they did on their end in the transmission rebuild. Rob at Grapevine Automatic indicated that it was related to a noise problem, and not his rebuild, and was persistent to find the cause of the problem using different ideas to eliminate the noise that was causing the problem. I had the exact problem as you referenced, it would cycle in low at 30mph and in overdrive between 45 and 50mph, on the slightest incline. We installed additional ground wires, rerouted wires, increased clutch pressure, etc. All fixes were only temporary, and the problem would resurface after a few miles. After installing the Noise filter from Navone Engineering, the problem went away. I put it through the test this weekend, actually trying to make it cycle, and I am happy to report that my truck is fixed. The annoying problem of clutch cycling went away immediately with quick install of this noise filter. I was ready to call it quits and buy a new truck. Now, thanks to your and Navone’s help, I think I’ll keep it for another couple of hundred miles.
    Tommy
    Electrical Engineer
    Grapevine, TX

    Copyright 2005 -2010 by Kent R. Rieske. All Rights Reserved.
    Permission is granted to copy this information in whole and without revision providing that full credit is given to the author. This information may not be copied in part and the information may not be included in any material that is offered for sale. You are encouraged to place a link to this article on your website page.



  10. #10
    Senior Moderator chevychase's Avatar
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    Nice write up pinballman will be great info to search from.

    Gitter done have fun. Running on empty...running blind...running behind.....

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