Lifters "rattling"?

HUTCH · 08-23-2006, 07:38 AM

I apologize for my mechanical ignorance up front. I have an 02 Ram 1500. When first crank it up, there is quite a bit of engine "chatter". Only does it for a couple of minutes, but it sounds like ****. Once it gets a little warm it stops. Someone told me it might be the lifters. Does anyone have any other suggestions, or if you think it is the lifters, how difficult is that to correct. Thanks a ton....HUTCH

Larry O'Daniel · 08-23-2006, 02:03 PM

Guessing it is your lifters. How many miles is on the motor? How many miles from your last oil change? Did it start after the last oil change? Have you changed your brand/weight of oil? Brands of oil filter?
Suggestions: change oil and change brands of oil filter. See if this stops it. From your description it sounds as though your motor is losing it's prime of oil after it is shut down for a while. This is usually the result of the check valve in the oil filter failing and can be fixed with a new oil filter. In the late 60s and early 70s you could tell when it was time to change oil because the lifters would start rattling like this, and it was always real close to 3500-4000 miles on that oil change. Anyway, try the oil change and let us know what happens.

HUTCH · 08-24-2006, 09:28 AM

85k miles on the motor. I never go over 3,000 miles between oil changes. It continues to rattle even after a fresh oil change. I haven't tried changing weight of oil. I've always used 10W30 with a Fram filter. I guess I first noticed the noise around 75k miles.

Larry O'Daniel · 08-25-2006, 06:07 AM

Keep the 10W30 weight and don't go to a single weight oil. The single weight oil usually will be 30 or heavier and won't get thin enough to get inside the lifters to keep them clean. I would assume that since you change every 3K that you are not using Mobil 1 or any of the other synethics. Next oil change use a different brand of filter. Consider using a synethic brand of oil, it will clean the inside of your motor better than the regular oil. (Each manufacture uses a blend of additives in their oil and these additives clean certain things in your motor. Using the same brand always cleans the same thing, by changing brands you will clean other things thus the filter gets dirtier right after a brand change so consider a shorter time between the first change if you change brands.) If you go to a synethic, due to the cost difference, change only the filter early and top off the oil, than go to the end of that change. Hope this helps.

HUTCH · 08-25-2006, 09:37 AM

Thanks a ton Larry. I'll try some of the synthetic this weekend as I am due for a change.

chevyguy · 08-25-2006, 10:43 PM

NOOOOOOOO, Do not switch oil while you have a problem. As for oil weight not cleaning lifters, all I can say is HUH? So the dual wieght oil starts out at 10 weight and turns into 30 after it is warn, So even now his 10-30 would not be cleaning out his lifters, Lets rethink that last comment there. O.K. heres what i can make out of it. My thought is the oil pump is going to the wayside. What is the oil pressure gauge reading on start up? If you are getting plenty of oil pressure on startup, then maybe you shoulkd swith to a thicker weight oil to help with lubricating worn parts .

DodgeChick · 08-25-2006, 11:36 PM

I agree with CG... changing things up while you're having a problem is not a good idea.

Larry O'Daniel · 08-26-2006, 07:39 AM

OK.. I have 2 against 1 here.

If the oil pump was going by the wayside then why does the rattling go away after a few minutes of running. It would rattle the same all the time.

I agree with "not changing things when things are broke until you have it figured out" BUT don't we "change" things to fix things that are broke. It rattles only during startup. The rattle could be caused by the lifters losing their prime, or the motor losing it's prime. During startup the lifters rattle until full of oil, the pressure is high enough to hold the lifter piston up taking the slack out of the valve train. The oil filter has the check valve to keep the oil pump primed and is easy to change.

Switching to the synethic gives additional lubrication and cleans better than regular oil. You know how lifters work, you know what makes them rattle and what makes them quiet. The synethic oil will just give them the oil to stop and also the better lubrication to work longer. And if you are right about the "south side oil pump" than synethic is NOT going to make any difference.

He said it was time for an oil change. Change to the synethic & the filter. See if that helps. If it is the oil pump than this won't hurt nor will it matter. It is better oil and it just might save the motor for more miles until he can replace it. I am sure he will tell us if it did or not.

Larry O'Daniel · 08-26-2006, 11:12 AM

OH!!! I forgot something.

SOHC cams have a habit of "sliding" toward the end of the head when not running. When they first start they "rattle" until they re-align or "center", the amount of movement is directly related to the thrust clearance which in turn relates to the length of time they "rattle" after first starting. The oil pressure in the lifters "pressurize" taking the slack out of the valve train and does the alignment, also the timing chain "pulls" the cam into alignment to "center" the cam.

I apologize for my last thread, I slipped off into the older vehicles which we were not talking about. As for synethic oil vs regular oil, the air craft industry has been using it for many many years because of it's excellent detergent properties and the fact that it did not break down like regular oil.

72'CaminoKid · 08-26-2006, 06:22 PM

my dad's an aircraft mechanic and i dont believe he uses synthetic, but i'm not 100% sure

08-23-2006, 07:38 AM	#1
HUTCH Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	Lifters "rattling"? I apologize for my mechanical ignorance up front. I have an 02 Ram 1500. When first crank it up, there is quite a bit of engine "chatter". Only does it for a couple of minutes, but it sounds like ****. Once it gets a little warm it stops. Someone told me it might be the lifters. Does anyone have any other suggestions, or if you think it is the lifters, how difficult is that to correct. Thanks a ton....HUTCH

08-25-2006, 10:43 PM	#6
chevyguy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 3,555	NOOOOOOOO, Do not switch oil while you have a problem. As for oil weight not cleaning lifters, all I can say is HUH? So the dual wieght oil starts out at 10 weight and turns into 30 after it is warn, So even now his 10-30 would not be cleaning out his lifters, Lets rethink that last comment there. O.K. heres what i can make out of it. My thought is the oil pump is going to the wayside. What is the oil pressure gauge reading on start up? If you are getting plenty of oil pressure on startup, then maybe you shoulkd swith to a thicker weight oil to help with lubricating worn parts . __________________ Some people are like slinkies, Basically useless, But fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.

08-25-2006, 11:36 PM	#7
DodgeChick Senior Member++ Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 850	I agree with CG... changing things up while you're having a problem is not a good idea. __________________ 2002 Patriot Blue Ram 1500 4x4 in the process of some mods ***Voted Best Truck on HGS*** Silly boys!! Trucks are for girls!!! "Grab Life By The Horns"

08-26-2006, 07:39 AM	#8
Larry O'Daniel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tulsa, stationed at Ft. Sill, OK Posts: 90	OK.. I have 2 against 1 here. If the oil pump was going by the wayside then why does the rattling go away after a few minutes of running. It would rattle the same all the time. I agree with "not changing things when things are broke until you have it figured out" BUT don't we "change" things to fix things that are broke. It rattles only during startup. The rattle could be caused by the lifters losing their prime, or the motor losing it's prime. During startup the lifters rattle until full of oil, the pressure is high enough to hold the lifter piston up taking the slack out of the valve train. The oil filter has the check valve to keep the oil pump primed and is easy to change. Switching to the synethic gives additional lubrication and cleans better than regular oil. You know how lifters work, you know what makes them rattle and what makes them quiet. The synethic oil will just give them the oil to stop and also the better lubrication to work longer. And if you are right about the "south side oil pump" than synethic is NOT going to make any difference. He said it was time for an oil change. Change to the synethic & the filter. See if that helps. If it is the oil pump than this won't hurt nor will it matter. It is better oil and it just might save the motor for more miles until he can replace it. I am sure he will tell us if it did or not. Last edited by Larry O'Daniel; 08-26-2006 at 11:20 AM.

08-26-2006, 06:22 PM	#10
72'CaminoKid Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,757	my dad's an aircraft mechanic and i dont believe he uses synthetic, but i'm not 100% sure __________________ 99 suburban xlt 96 silverado 91 wrangler (my baby ) 08 Honday shadow 750 (my mistress)

08-23-2006, 02:03 PM	#2
Larry O'Daniel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tulsa, stationed at Ft. Sill, OK Posts: 90	Guessing it is your lifters. How many miles is on the motor? How many miles from your last oil change? Did it start after the last oil change? Have you changed your brand/weight of oil? Brands of oil filter? Suggestions: change oil and change brands of oil filter. See if this stops it. From your description it sounds as though your motor is losing it's prime of oil after it is shut down for a while. This is usually the result of the check valve in the oil filter failing and can be fixed with a new oil filter. In the late 60s and early 70s you could tell when it was time to change oil because the lifters would start rattling like this, and it was always real close to 3500-4000 miles on that oil change. Anyway, try the oil change and let us know what happens.

08-24-2006, 09:28 AM	#3
HUTCH Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	85k miles on the motor. I never go over 3,000 miles between oil changes. It continues to rattle even after a fresh oil change. I haven't tried changing weight of oil. I've always used 10W30 with a Fram filter. I guess I first noticed the noise around 75k miles.

08-25-2006, 06:07 AM	#4
Larry O'Daniel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tulsa, stationed at Ft. Sill, OK Posts: 90	Keep the 10W30 weight and don't go to a single weight oil. The single weight oil usually will be 30 or heavier and won't get thin enough to get inside the lifters to keep them clean. I would assume that since you change every 3K that you are not using Mobil 1 or any of the other synethics. Next oil change use a different brand of filter. Consider using a synethic brand of oil, it will clean the inside of your motor better than the regular oil. (Each manufacture uses a blend of additives in their oil and these additives clean certain things in your motor. Using the same brand always cleans the same thing, by changing brands you will clean other things thus the filter gets dirtier right after a brand change so consider a shorter time between the first change if you change brands.) If you go to a synethic, due to the cost difference, change only the filter early and top off the oil, than go to the end of that change. Hope this helps.

08-25-2006, 09:37 AM	#5
HUTCH Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5	Thanks a ton Larry. I'll try some of the synthetic this weekend as I am due for a change.

08-26-2006, 11:12 AM	#9
Larry O'Daniel Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tulsa, stationed at Ft. Sill, OK Posts: 90	OH!!! I forgot something. SOHC cams have a habit of "sliding" toward the end of the head when not running. When they first start they "rattle" until they re-align or "center", the amount of movement is directly related to the thrust clearance which in turn relates to the length of time they "rattle" after first starting. The oil pressure in the lifters "pressurize" taking the slack out of the valve train and does the alignment, also the timing chain "pulls" the cam into alignment to "center" the cam. I apologize for my last thread, I slipped off into the older vehicles which we were not talking about. As for synethic oil vs regular oil, the air craft industry has been using it for many many years because of it's excellent detergent properties and the fact that it did not break down like regular oil.

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