1999 Exp 2WD 5.4L - Plastic pieces in oil pan!

[mjbtn]

Hello,

I have a 1999 2WD Expedition with the 5.4L Triton engine. I had been having some problems with oil pressure and the truck had been parked for over a year (as we have an extra vehicle). I was pretty certain the oil pump was OK and suspected the oil take-up tube screen (as I encountered a similar problem in the past). Not having the ability to lift the engine myself, I had been putting off doing anything. Well, I finally decided to see if how far I could get just trying to get the pan off (well, at least to use a flash light to try and inspect the screen etc if the pan was loose). Sure enough, it lacked 1" clearance on the rear side of the pan to come off completely.

HOWEVER, it did provide the ability to move the pan around and point a flash light in down over the top lip of the pan as well as move the pan so that I could see the bottom of the take up screen through the oil plug hole. What I found was NOT what I expected! :-) The intake opening to the take up was indeed plugged, but NOT with sludge or wax sediment BUT with a chunk of hard, black PLASTIC! At this point, I used a screw driver through the oil plug opening to clear the obstruction to the take up. At the same time, seeing there to be potentially enough clearance to get my arm and hand over the top of the rim of the oil pan, I fished my hand down into the pan and pulled out 4 chunks of shattered plastic. I am attaching photos. The top piece was approx 5.5" wide and the bottom rightmost piece was wedged in the take up.

I proceeded to clear out as much other debris (sediment mainly) from the take up screen and then at the bottom of the pan with a key on a key ring around my index finger (so as not to have it slip off). I then put 1/2 can Seamfom in the pan (with the plug back in) and with a glove on cleaned out what more I could and drained it.

I assume these pieces must be from valves or something related. But plastic??!?!? I could not find any lookup on the part number on the long piece (F75E-6M256-A?), but I have not looked extensively. How did these get here and what does it mean for the engine? Though the truck has been parked and NOT driven, I have started it periodically and during the instances the oil pressure was showing normal, then engine seemed to run fine and showed no signs of anything out of what has been normal for it for past several years. While nothing like this should ever be in the oil pan, is this something that REQUIRES a rebuild?!? The truck has 170000 miles on it and is more a utility vehicle than regular transportation. Is the perhaps something I could investigate/repair (knowing I cannot lift or pull the engine)?

Thanks!

Mark

[BernieB]

Looks like a piece of the timing chain guide. Been having any problems with the timing on the truck?

[mjbtn]

I don't think so. But, at the time the problem with the oil pressure surfaced, my wife was driving the vehicle on a regular basis, so, I cannot say for sure. What is involved in getting at the timing chain assemblies? is this something that can be done without lifting or pulling the engine? What would I be likely to find? Is there any reference material online that I could go research? Thanks for your reply!!

[crabtruck]

Part nimbers I'm seeing:

Chain Guide (right) 2L1Z-6M256-AA
Chain Guide (left) 2L1Z-6K297-AA
Tensioner Arm (right) XL1Z-6K255-AA
Tensioner Arm (left) F85Z-6M274-AA

SOHC - Timing Chains F6TZ-6268-AA
DOHC - Timing Chain.. F3LY-6268-B

Fun Facts from Doug Anderson, president of Grooms Engines:

330/5.4L Ford engine was introduced in 1997
The original block for the SOHC was a F75E-AC/AF casting that’s easily identified
by the "X" gussets just above the pan rail on both sides of the block.

The 5.4L still looks like the 4.6L Windsor with the dowel pins for the main caps,
but the deck is about .350˝ taller to accommodate the longer stroke.
The DOHC motor came with a F75E-AG casting that’s identical to the F75E-AC/AF block
except that there’s one hole on the driver’s side not drilled,
but it can be used for a SOHC application as long as this missing hole is drilled

Ford 5.4L SOHC has been the standard engine in the heavy duty F250/F350 pickups
and Excursions and optional in the F150/F250 pickups, Econoline vans and Expeditions since ’97.
There was also a DOHC motor that was introduced in the middle of ’99
that has been used in all of the Lincoln trucks and sport utilities since then.
Most of the 5.4Ls in service are gas engines (VIN L), but there are a few CNG versions (VIN M)
and some flex-fuel (VIN Z) motors, too, along with the supercharged engines
that came in the Lightning pickups (VIN 3).
The DOHC engines (VIN A) were used only in the Lincoln Navigator and the Blackwood pickups

[BernieB]

Originally Posted by mjbtn

I don't think so. But, at the time the problem with the oil pressure surfaced, my wife was driving the vehicle on a regular basis, so, I cannot say for sure. What is involved in getting at the timing chain assemblies? is this something that can be done without lifting or pulling the engine? What would I be likely to find? Is there any reference material online that I could go research? Thanks for your reply!!

To get at the chains you're looking at a serious teardown of the front of the engine. Fan, water pump, probably the alternator, p/s pump and a/c too, and the radiator and condenser just for some working room.

[BernieB]

Here's a photo of the timing parts on that engine. The guide is the part in the left center with the holes in it.


And here's a diagram of how it all goes together. The piece you show looks to me to be part of the right guide.

[BernieB]

If I had to take a guess, I'd suspect the chains are stretched out, or the gears worn down, allowing the chain to slap against the guide and break it.

[BernieB]

Well, before I get to what I think might be going on I'd just like to point out that it's against forum rules here to post links to other forums. A moderator will probably remove that link and send you a warning about it.

Not my forum, and not my rules, so I just follow 'em.

As for what's happening now, I'd say there's a good chance that right timing chain has either jumped a tooth or is trying to jump a tooth. No idea on why it would do it now and not earlier but that's what I think is happening.

IMHO your best option would be to not run the engine at all until the chains are repaired. I'm not sure if this is an "interference" type engine or not (eg: where a piston can hit a valve if the timing chain breaks or jumps) but I wouldn't chance it. Even if a valve doesn't get hit, it's not going to be pretty if that right bank gets seriously out of time.

Yes, you can do the teardown and repair with the motor still in the truck, and that's great if, and only if, you don't snap any bolts taking it apart. If you do, and they are in the back, the engine is gonna have to be pulled anyway to drill them out and fix it. If I were doing this job in my old shop the engine would get pulled and put on a stand, simply because it's easier to work on then.

Now, the question you have to ask yourself (apologies to Dirty Harry) is... Do you feel lucky? If so, and you're prepared to work inside the engine bay, which can be a real PITA and give you all kinds of headaches, then go ahead and try it. If not, pull it and do it right.

Another question to ask yourself is: How much "life" is left in the engine? You didn't say how many miles it has on it, but if it's a high mileage engine it might benefit you, in the long run, to go with a crate motor. Especially since this motor was run for who knows how long with low oil pressure.

[mjbtn]

I forgot abou the link thing. Oops. Was trying to save bandwidth.

Well, I know pulling the engine would be better for sure. Just don't have a lift or hoist to do it with. And, I am wondering about whether it is worth it or not as well. It has over 170,000 miles on it. If one were to seek out a crate motor, what and where would be a recommended place to look and what would be a) fair price for replacement motor and b) fee to put it in? I will certainly get this quote anyways, but, is a 10 yrs old Expedition with 170,000+ miles ALL OVER worth, say, $4500 for new motor w/ installation? And, the bolt thing is a great point too. The only thing that gives me some hope for this engine is that it was running well when I put it on the ramp, so, however it get done, if the timing chain issue can get resolved, I would expect it to do OK after that for a while at least. I have not had a chance to call around yet, but, I am going to get quotes on having someone do the timing chains. One big advantage there would be that if they pulled the engine and popped the top off, and found more wrong with it, then, the brakes go on right then and there. BUT, that said, it may be worth me attempting as much as possible first in case I really am lucky and not just delussional! :-)

I was happier not knowing what was really wrong! :-) Now, I have a bug to do something about it all at once. Thank God for these forums though!

[mjbtn]

oh yeah, in talking with shops around my area, what would one describe this scenario to be and/or what would one call this "job" when asking for a quote?