Internet Speed

[hotrodpc]

Hey BB, while on the subject, and close to the title topic, since you put the bits and bytes so eleoqhently, and this is a common question I get, and getting it even more so now with the launch of Windows 7, ESPLAIN the difference between of the 32 bit operating system and the 64 bit operating system.

[BernieB]

Originally Posted by hotrodpc

Hey BB, while on the subject, and close to the title topic, since you put the bits and bytes so eleoqhently, and this is a common question I get, and getting it even more so now with the launch of Windows 7, ESPLAIN the difference between of the 32 bit operating system and the 64 bit operating system.

Sure, that's an easy one...

When an operating system is described as 16 bit, 32 bit, or 64 bit, that's simply a description of the largest operation it can handle in a single step. Since all software is simply a series of operations that the computer performs, the more you can "do" in a single operation with that software, the faster and more efficient it will run.

But, keep in mind that all three components of the "system" (the software, the hardware, and the OS) must all be capable of that same level, otherwise it falls back to "lowest common denominator", and if there isn't one (such as a 64 bit OS that can't drop to match 32 bit hardware) then the whole thing just stops working.

So, if you have a 64 bit PC, but run a 32 bit OS, even if you use 64 bit software (provided it will even load and run) it won't operate at 64 bit speeds. And if you have a 64 bit PC, and 64 bit OS, but your software is 32 bit, guess what level that program is going to run at?

[hotrodpc]

Oh man see, there you go, getting all technical speaking over everyone heads, or should I say most people. For the purpose of being simple so that the general dude or dudette can understand, I usually put it to them this way. Picture the 32 or 64 bits as lanes of traffic, and picture your data or task as cars. So you can move more data or multitask much quicker with 64 lanes than you can 32 lanes. Where as if you have alot of data to move or multitasking, A Corvette can go no faster than a Kia in 5:00 rush hour traffic, blah blah blah, so the Corvette will benefit from the 64 bits more so than the Kia, that is how I usually give my description. Then I get Ohhhhhh, Duhhhh then I want the 64bit. No No No, not so fast, then the explanation of the hardware, software compatability come in. You are right about the common denominator reverting to the lower, but some hardware, or software, will have no part of the 64 bit OS, and will NOT revert or drop to a lower 32bit. It just flat won't run and will need replaced or upgraded.

[BernieB]

Also, along the same lines, is the whole issue of "dual core", "quad core" and "whatever core" CPUs. When they first came out they were pretty much useless, except for very specific situations (I have a dual Pentium III system sitting here next to me that came out ten years ago, and was used to run UNIX for a server) because there were few OS's that could even "see" the extra processors.

Then, along came XP Pro, which supported multiple processors. Aha! Now we can make full use of such high-end hardware! Nope! While the OS could access and use the extra processors, there was very little software that could (still isn't a lot) so the extra processors just sat idle. IIRC, as little as two years ago the only software available that could actually work with multiple processors was AutoCAD 3D and some versions of Photoshop.

[hotrodpc]

Originally Posted by BernieB

Also, along the same lines, is the whole issue of "dual core", "quad core" and "whatever core" CPUs. When they first came out they were pretty much useless, except for very specific situations (I have a dual Pentium III system sitting here next to me that came out ten years ago, and was used to run UNIX for a server) because there were few OS's that could even "see" the extra processors.

Then, along came XP Pro, which supported multiple processors. Aha! Now we can make full use of such high-end hardware! Nope! While the OS could access and use the extra processors, there was very little software that could (still isn't a lot) so the extra processors just sat idle. IIRC, as little as two years ago the only software available that could actually work with multiple processors was AutoCAD 3D and some versions of Photoshop.

Another real good point BB, but even though A paticular software program will not recognize multiple CPU, the system still has the benefit of speed IF you are multitalking, running differant programs at the same time, so there is still big benefits in the dual core, quad core etc, which is essentially the same as running 2 CPU's or 4 CPU's at that same time. I gots one of those old Xeon P3 Processors right here on my desk. Its a paperweight convesation piece more than anything.

[BernieB]

Originally Posted by hotrodpc

Oh man see, there you go, getting all technical speaking over everyone heads, or should I say most people. For the purpose of being simple so that the general dude or dudette can understand, I usually put it to them this way. Picture the 32 or 64 bits as lanes of traffic, and picture your data or task as cars. So you can move more data or multitask much quicker with 64 lanes than you can 32 lanes. Where as if you have alot of data to move or multitasking, A Corvette can go no faster than a Kia in 5:00 rush hour traffic, blah blah blah, so the Corvette will benefit from the 64 bits more so than the Kia, that is how I usually give my description. Then I get Ohhhhhh, Duhhhh then I want the 64bit. No No No, not so fast, then the explanation of the hardware, software compatability come in. You are right about the common denominator reverting to the lower, but some hardware, or software, will have no part of the 64 bit OS, and will NOT revert or drop to a lower 32bit. It just flat won't run and will need replaced or upgraded.

The whole "lanes of traffic" description is probably good, for your average computer user, but a better simile would probably be to compare it to trying to move a warehouse full of books with a Honda Civic (8 bit and 1,000 trips), your buddies van (16 bit and 500 trips), a box truck (32 bit and 250 trips) or a semi (64 bit and 125 trips)

[hotrodpc]

Originally Posted by BernieB

The whole "lanes of traffic" description is probably good, for your average computer user, but a better simile would probably be to compare it to trying to move a warehouse full of books with a Honda Civic (8 bit), your buddies van (16 bit), a box truck (32 bit) or a semi (64 bit)

Very True, and probably even better and eaiser to get them to understand. You know it was not that long ago we were using the Honda Civic Windows 3.1. Then Windows 95 came the buddies Van, then Windows 95B 98,98SE, ME, XP box van, and many are not aware there is also a Semi version of XP too. Now with Vista you got your choice of box van or semi as well as 7. I might add, I came up with the lanes of traffic thing becuase, the data is actually moving along a bus thru the CPU, software, OS etc, so in my head, I guess I just pictured it as a big interstate system moving data.

[BernieB]

Originally Posted by hotrodpc

Another real good point BB, but even though A paticular software program will not recognize multiple CPU, the system still has the benefit of speed IF you are multitalking, running differant programs at the same time, so there is still big benefits in the dual core, quad core etc, which is essentially the same as running 2 CPU's or 4 CPU's at that same time. I gots one of those old Xeon P3 Processors right here on my desk. Its a paperweight convesation piece more than anything.

Nope, that's not really true. It's what Intel, AMD and MS want you to believe is true, but it really isn't.

Unless the software is specifically written to take advantage of multiple processors or cores, or unless the OS or CPU drivers are designed (and enabled!) to shift tasks to additional cores, then every single program or process is going to still try to just use the primary processor, and ignore any additional cores. We're just now, over the last year, starting to see such drivers and software being released and implemented, but in very, very few cases are the new capabilities automatically enabled. With most you have to go in a specifically toggle that feature on/off.

[hotrodpc]

hmmmmm, see that I was not aware of. I know it kinda started with Hyperthreading, and you could turn that feature off and on in the BIOS of the Mobo. I knew the OS had to have the capability of operating the Multi Cores, so I must have assumed the OS would delegate the programs what Core to use, like say a ride attendant loading people onto a rollercoaster. You go there, you behind him, you go down there, etc etc.

[BernieB]

Well, it's a simple case of the hardware having to come first, then the software. Nobody is going to write code for a hardware feature or function that doesn't exist. Heck, even if you did, how would you debug it or test it?